INTERVIEW: Paul Collins from The Nerves/The Beat

   Last October I interviewed Paul Collins when he came to perform at The Dial warehouse in Murrieta with his longstanding band The Beat. For those who are unfamiliar, Collins is a fairly iconic figure in early DIY rock n roll, having first performed in the seminal 1970s groups The Nerves and The Breakaways before starting The Beat and continuing to perform with various incarnations of the band for over 30 years. He is sometimes referred to as "the King of Power Pop" due to his various groups' contributions to the development and popularity of the style, as well as his unwavering dedication to its survival through non-stop DIY touring. Considering his influence both to the power pop genre and to underground tour networking in general, I made a point to get some words in with him while he was in town to better understand his perspective on these aspects of American rock culture that he's spent the better part of his life dedicated to.
   It took me way too long to transcribe this but here's how our conversation went:

Ian: This is Ian speaking with Paul Collins from The Nerves, The Beat, The Breakaways, many other incarnations; First of all, how are you doing tonight?
Paul: I'm good, I'm happy to be in Hemet
I: Actually we're in Temecula right now
P: Oh, Temecula
(laughter)
[We were in Murrieta]
I: I just have a couple questions because you have kind of embodied the DIY thing for a long time. I did notice when I was looking up The Nerves - I've been a fan for a long time but this was the first time I really looked into your history - you had set up a tour way back in the day when you guys were first starting out and you kind of did that all by yourself, before that was really the thing to do
P: I believe it was one of the first DIY national tours ever.
I: How did you go about [booking that]? Did you contact the bands themselves or the clubs themselves...?
P: We contacted the clubs. I just did my research which was by looking at newspapers or calling, getting people - actually, one time I think I called a police station to find out the clubs where they were busting people! Just, this is back in the day, before Internet and cell phones and all that so you had to - actually the tour, the claim to fame was that I [literally] booked it on a dime, because I would go to a payphone and I would call the operator and I would say, 'how much is a call to Chicago?' '$2.15 for the first 3 minutes.' So I would call back and say, 'hey I was calling Chicago, a number in Chicago, and I got cut off!' and they'd say, 'well how much did you put in?' and I'd say '$2.15!" So if you had the right amount, they believed you. 'Okay sir, we'll reconnect you." So I had to do all my business in 3 minutes.
I: Damn that's pretty cool. So to juxtapose that, and I'd agree that's one of the earliest methods of underground touring...
P: Yeah we were so pre-"DIY" that we didn't know it was "DIY"
I: You just had to do what you had to do
P: That's right
I: And so now, it's like, you were on kind-of bigger labels, you did stuff in the '80s like "American Bandstand" - I can't even believe that - and now you're doing the DIY tour circuit again, how do you feel about [then versus now], do you see like a parallel or do you feel like there's a different [vibe]?
P: It's totally different. The biggest thing that changed everything was the Internet. I mean you can network online. That makes a big difference. And there's a lot more bands to network with and the concept of DIY is a lot more accepted. But it's [also] still the same, the nuts and bolts are still the same: you're going out there by yourself or with another band, and it's rough & tumble and down & dirty & gritty, and you're still struggling for exposure and to get people to come out -- To Get People To Come Out. You know, rock n roll, at its nucleus, is in the clubs, and it's always been that way. You go see a band, you get turned onto them, and you get that whole experience of feeling that music live
I: In person
P: That's where the energy level is. I mean, records are great too, records are great because they travel all over the world, and some guy in New Zealand can listen to your record that you made in New York or in California. But it's come full-circle; I mean that's why all the bands are out, from Bruce Springsteen and Lady Gaga all the way down. The road is where it's at now.
I: That's something I had wanted to ask you about - in your career you've had experience with larger arena-type acts; did you ever feel like you had a disconnect with them because you had this understanding of the "DIY" ethic early on when the 'rockstar' attitude was probably even more prevalent than now; Can you speak to that at all?
P: No, I mean I've been hustling all my life, I've always been hustling. We met some of those big people but we were never at [the level of] one of them. It's a big deal, I mean, I don't know what its like to walk out onstage in front of 20,000 people or 60,000 people. I can't wrap my frame around that one. Definitely, some people play for more people than I play for in 5 years in one night. So, right now I've come to accept my position in this and I just out and do it. My main thing right now is just to get the people in the room. That's all it's about for me, whether it's 5, 10, 20, 100, 200...
I: Like you were saying, [you're] just doing what you're doing; a lot of the music that you've made is strongly associated with 'power pop,' often seen as one of its foundations. How do you feel about that term, 'power pop'? Do you feel that it is something that does actually characterize what you've done?
P: When it first came out, we hated it. We thought it was, you know, bogus and empty; and of course we considered ourselves a rock n roll band, sure. But power pop is a genre of rock n roll, and I what I say to people now about this whole thing - because it is a pro and a con, it's kind-of a stigma, like power pop is nerdy or whatever or that it's not mainstream (and well, it isn't mainstream) - but, power pop to me embodies all the best parts of any great rock n roll: great songs, great guitar licks, great melodies, great harmonics...
I: And quickly done a lot of the time; [songs] don't take, like, forever
P: I read a review, or I heard something, whatever, I read or heard something about Elton John's new album. It said, if he spends more than 40 minutes on a new song, he gets bored. So, some stuff happens quickly, some things take a long time to find their place, you know? Power pop today, it doesn't mean anything of what it did back then. Back then it was a curse. Today its not a curse anymore and I embrace it because - for better or worse - that's what people say I do, so I'm not gonna fight it. But it's an underground genre, and it's still a genre that really needs a lot of help. Bands that do this kind of music, it's tough! You can't go out there and make a living doing this! I mean, I'm doing it now by the skin of my ass. And I'm thankful for that, but in general, it's not like "indie rock." It's not like "garage rock" where [they can go] make 30 grand in a night. Why? Why? Is it because this music isn't good? Because it's inferior? It doesn't have the same kind of merit or quality? It's fucked up. But it's the way it is. And a lot of times, just like, getting people exposed to it - once they get exposed to it they love it - but it's so underground and it's so niche, it's struggling for its survival. I think after now, power pop is in its second generation, so there's no doubt - there can be no doubt - that it's a valid, legitimate genre. But it's still fighting for its life. Plus, the power pop today, is not, you know...I think I see it as a much more elastic genre than it was back in the day. Kids today - they absorbed the music from the past and they make it their own. It's an influence that can be combined with a number of other ones.
I: And at this point, there are so many "pasts"; kids are looking at all these different things, and obviously because of the Internet we're able to find things that in the past was a bit more difficult to mine into
P: People in general have this mania to classify things, but at the end of the day it's still rock n roll. To me, Chuck Berry is rock n roll and Sex Pistols are rock n roll. Although they're not the same, they're still rock n roll.
I: I completely agree with you...Kind of related to that [idea of genres being related], I noticed that you have an alternative-country side band or something?
P: A lot of people say that. I went through a period where I put out an album or two like that, but I don't have a side project.
I: Okay maybe I'm misreading into that
P: No, people have said that
I: Did you ever do anything, like, in the country circuit?
P: Listen, if I went to Nashville, they would shoot me in my head. I am so...I am not country, even if I have songs that might remotely sound a bit country. Most rock n roll musicians love country; country and rock n roll and blues, they're all intertwined. I mean, rock n rollers love Johnny Cash.
I: And Willie Nelson
P: A bunch of cats
I: Alright well I need to actually go get ready for my own set, and I'm really stoked for yours. This is gonna be great.
P: Wait, you're playing a set?
I: Yeah I play in the band right before you
P: Which one?
I: I play in a band called The Gravitys
P: Oh cool
I: But that's besides the point
P: Are we gonna have people here tonight, Ian?
[In a fortunate turn of events, several of my own friends happened to show up and pass by the van right at this moment]
I: I'm trying; Here's some people!
P: There ya go, there's some people
I: Hopefully there's gonna be more...
P: Alright let me ask you, why is it so hard to get people out?
I: Honestly I don't know; My experience has been that nowadays bands are so damn aggressive, you know? [In] my band, I play like an acoustic guitar plugged into an electric amp and I'm pretty melodic with it, and that's always been my goal because a lot of my friends are in hardcore bands or in metal bands or things like that. Sometimes, like, kids just wanna mosh. They're so into the aggressive side of things that they're forgetting about the actual songcraft.That's what I think is kinda lost in the shuffle of saying 'I can play faster than you' or 'I'm more technical than you;' they forget about songcraft I think. So there's this built-in crowd around that and they're just not as interested in more song-based music I think.
P: So maybe we should start a thrash metal band.
[Laughter]
I: I don't think so. I don't want that to happen. Well I'm gonna tie this up cuz I do need to help my drummer
P: Well, listen, thank you for helping us get the word out. You're a part of The Dial?
I: Yeah!
P: Well thats very cool
I: Indeed...Well my last question that I try to ask anybody I interview, and it's kinda arbitrary: what would you say is your favorite breakfast food?
P: My favorite food now is the way they serve breakfast in Australia, which is: fried eggs with some fried mushrooms, fried tomatoes, toast, crispy bacon, and sometimes they put a little bit of steamed spinach. They call it "brekky." It's awesome.
I: That sounds very good. Alright Paul, thanks for the time and insight
P: Good luck on your set!
I: Thank you!!